Ellen R. Auster is Professor of Strategic Management at the Schulich School of Business, York University. Prior to joining Schulich, she was on the faculty at the Graduate School of Business at Columbia University in NYC and Visiting Faculty at the Amos Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth in Hanover, New Hampshire. She earned her B.A. from Colgate University and her PhD from Cornell University.
Ellen has more than 25 years of experience as an academic and consultant specializing in Stragility®: the art of strategic transitions, transformations, and turnarounds. A multiple research and teaching award winner, Ellen has been honored with the global, lifetime achievement Academy of Management Distinguished Educator Award, research awards from the Academy of Management and Management Science, and several teaching awards including the Kellogg/Schulich Executive MBA Professor of the Year. She has published widely in academic and practitioners journals and written four books including her latest, Stragility: Excelling at Strategic Changes published by University of Toronto/Rotman Press in 2016, with Lisa Hillenbrand.
Lisa Hillenbrand is a brand building and organizational change consultant at Hillenbrand & Associates. For 27 years she was Director, Global Marketing at Procter & Gamble, she led the team that “re-engineered” P&G’s company-wide brand building approach, creating the Brand Building Framework. She also led work on penetration and trial, value, initiative success, diffusion of innovation, word of mouth, habit change, influencer marketing, branded entertainment and digital.
Lisa was elected Harley Procter Marketer by the company’s top management. Those selected for this lifetime honor are recognized as the select few individuals (less than 10 out of 5000+ marketers) who exemplify the highest standards of marketing at P&G. She has extensive global experience with assignments in Asia, Western Europe and North America. She has a BA from Colgate University, an MBA in Marketing and Finance from Columbia University and has two children. She is an Adjunct Professor in the MBA program at University of Cincinnati. Lisa is head of the Marketing Committee for the Cincinnati Opera Board. Lisa is a talented speaker and workshop leader both with featured keynotes at the American Marketing Association, Marketing Science Institute and the Edison Foundation.
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Morris: Before discussing Stragility, a few general questions. First, who has had the greatest influence on your personal growth? How so?
Hillenbrand: It has taken a village, as they say! I have been blessed with wonderful mentors who have helped me grow throughout my career.
Auster: For me, it has been the Exec MBA, MBA and PhD students I have had the pleasure of teaching. They bring a breadth of knowledge and practical challenges that spans diverse industries and regions of the world. They have prompted so many new lines of thinking and applications for me.
Morris: Years ago, was there a turning point (if not an epiphany) that set you on the career course you continue to follow? Please explain.
Auster: In my very first job in a Food Distribution Center in New Jersey, I had a fabulous direct boss, but his boss (my senior boss) left a lot to be desired. So many brilliant ideas were squashed and lots of potential was wasted. I thought, “there has to be a better way and I’m going to go search that out.” That was one of the key catalysts that led me to this path of stakeholder inclusive approaches to strategic change and the pursuit of how to lead change so that everyone thrives and the organization wins again and again.
Morris: What do you know now about the business world that you wish you knew when you went to work full-time for the first time? Why?
Hillenbrand: I wish I could tell my 22-year old self that it is OK not to have it all figured out. My career took many twists and turns, all of which contributed in some way to what I do today.
Morris: Of all the films that you have seen, which – in your opinion – best dramatizes important business principles? Please explain.
Auster: There’s the scene in Jerry Maguire where he writes this amazing mission statement about the importance of relationships in business and is all fired up to transform the organization. His bosses don’t get it and unfortunately for them, fire him.
He carves a new path that aligns with his values and in the end wins in life. Those principles of the power of relationships, grit, and bouncing forward from setbacks are so vital.
Hillenbrand: There’s a wonderful scene in Hitch where actor Will Smith sees a woman he’d like to get to know. He learns a lot about her from what she is wearing (glasses, low heals, business attire suggesting she was not there to meet guys); asking the bartender her usual drink (beer but tonight she’s having a mixed drink suggesting a tough day at work); and watching a clueless guy try to pick her up (and saving her from his advances). It is a humorous scene but illustrates the importance of taking the time to understand other people’s perspectives and needs – a critical skill in business and in life!
Morris: From which non-business book have you learned the most valuable lessons about business? Please explain.
Hillenbrand: I have to shamelessly plug my sister Laura Hillenbrand’s two books Seabiscuit and Unbroken. They both illustrate the power of perseverance even under seemingly impossible circumstances. Also how diverse people (and a horse!) can come together to create something none of them could have accomplished alone.
Auster: One of my favorites is Frances Westley, Brenda Zimmerman, and Michael Patton’s book Getting to Maybe: How the World is Changed written almost a decade ago. That book and conversations with Brenda opened my eyes to complexity theory and concepts like “snap-back” when people revert to the status quo. This triggered my early thinking on proactively addressing the politics of change.
Morris: Here are several of my favorite quotations to which I ask you to respond. First, from Lao-tse’s Tao Te Ching:
“Learn from the people
Plan with the people
Begin with what they have
Build on what they know
Of the best leaders
When the task is accomplished
The people will remark
We have done it ourselves.”
Auster: That’s one of our favorite quotes, too. All change is people-powered. Without the input, ideas, passion and commitment of everyone, change fails. When we have the support, inspiration and engagement of the people – that’s when the organization wins and the people thrive.
Morris: From Michael Porter: “The essence of strategy is choosing what not to do.”
Hillenbrand: So many of us feel a sense of pride in our longing to do lists. In Stragility, we advocate changing LESS to accomplish more. We need to ruthlessly weed out the less significant projects in favor of the critical few that must be done, or else all the pretty good ones will choke the others like weeds in a garden. Steve Jobs famously narrowed Apple’s focus to two big projects – what became the Mac and the iPhone. If a huge company like Apple can do it, then so can we!
Morris: From Thomas Edison: “Vision without execution is hallucination.”
Auster: Often leaders have the most brilliant strategies but they are unable to bring them to life because they lock and load and tell and sell. As a result, no one engages. In other words, even the best vision will be only a mirage unless we “go slow to go fast” and inspire, engage, and focus on execution. The only strategy a customer sees is the one we execute — so yes, it isn’t real until it starts having positive impacts on stakeholders.
Morris: The reference “go slow to go fast” reminds me of an ancient Africa proverb: “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together”
Finally, from Peter Drucker: “There is surely nothing quite so useless as doing with great efficiency what should not be done at all.”
Hillenbrand: That speaks to my earlier point about ruthlessly prioritizing and stopping worthy, but less critical, projects to free up time for the truly game changing ones.
Morris: The greatest leaders throughout history (with rare exception) were great storytellers. What do you make of that?
Auster: We agree…there is lots of science behind the art of storytelling. Stories help people connect emotionally and intellectually, building the compelling why for any change. We advocate moving beyond a giant PowerPoint deck in order to build a business case that resonates with powerful stories that help people connect and see the importance of their role and of the change itself.
Morris: Most change initiatives either fail or fall far short of original (perhaps unrealistic) expectations. More often than not, we see skeptics resist change, even change that appears to have a big organizational benefit. Here’s my question: How best to avoid or overcome such resistance?
Auster: Often in our rush to get the changes implemented, we ignore the skeptics. Ignoring them makes it more likely that they will actively or passively resist the change. Often, however, skeptics have legitimate concerns that, if addressed, can turn them into advocates. In addition, engaging skeptics has many benefits. First, they can be catalysts for rethinking different aspects of the change to make it more successful. Second, addressing their issues often leads to their increased ownership and commitment as the change rolls out. Lastly, engaging them sends a powerful signal to the rest of the organization that constructive feedback is welcome.
Morris: Looking ahead (let’s say) 3-5 years, what do you think will be the greatest challenge that CEOs face? Any advice?
Hillenbrand: The greatest challenges CEOs face today and tomorrow are formulating winning strategies and getting them executed. So much of strategic change fails – 70% of changes are unsuccessful, leaving companies weaker and employees burnt out. The good news is that Stragility change skills can be learned and can become a company’s greatest competitive advantage.
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Ellen and Lisa cordially invite you to check out the resources at their website. Here’s the link.
Here is a direct link to the complete interview.